Another Day, Another Fundy

Yesterday I received an email from a religous person who claimed to offer scientific proof of god’s existence. Below is his email and my rebuttal.

 

If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, and then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks – all the evidence would be worthless because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

When it comes to the possibility of God’s existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God. (Romans 1:19-21). On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, “You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you” (Jeremiah 29:13-14).  Before you look at the facts surrounding God’s existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider…

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God’s design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth…its size is perfect. The Earth’s size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth’s surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter (R.E.D. Clark, Creation (London: Tyndale Press, 1946), p. 20).  Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. If it were any closer, we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth’s position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents (The Wonders of God’s Creation, Moody Institute of Science, Chicago, IL).

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start – what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, “The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion…The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen.”

Robert Jastrow; “Message from Professor Robert Jastrow”; LeaderU.com; 2002.

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, “the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade…and the universe was filled with light” [Steven Weinberg; The First Three Minutes: A Modern View of the Origin of the Universe; (Basic Books,1988); p 5.].

The universe has not always existed. It had a start…and what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

If I told you that the watch on my wrist was designed by a team of engineers, skillfully crafted by a team of highly trained technicians, sent to a jobber, and from there to the store where my wife bought it as a gift for me, would you believe me?

Well, let me tell you what really happened: Millions and millions of years ago there were atoms freely floating through the universe. Cosmic winds drew them together, clustering them into various materials: silicon, crystals, metals, and other various parts. Through the random effects of chance, over millions of years, of course, these various elements were thrown together in to his interesting device that now adorns my wrist, and it has been keeping accurate time ever since! 

Ridiculous, isn’t it. The notion that this complex little device “happened” by the caprice of chance alone is, of course, absurd. It is obviously the object of careful and skillful design. Strange that we reject the notion that this watch happened by accident, yet it is vastly simpler than the wrist upon which it resides.

The watch is a simple “open loop” design. The wrist is a “closed loop” servo system, which is vastly more sophisticated. It adjust to ambient conditions, fights off invaders, even repairs itself and involves design elements we are only just now beginning to understand! Why is it that we require a designer to explain the origin of the watch, yet are willing to ascribe the biological systems which it adorns chance?

3. Does God exist? Design parameters of the universe.

The limits and parameters of the universe have come within the measuring capacity of astronomers and physicists, the design characteristics of the universe are being examined and acknowledged. Astronomers have discovered that the characteristics and parameters of the universe, and our solar system are so finely tuned to support life that nothing less than a personal, intelligent Creator can explain the degree of the universe being fine-tuned It requires power and purpose.

Approximately two dozen parameters of the universe have been identified that must be carefully fixed in order for any kind of conceivable life to exist at any time in the history of the universe. Here are a few examples of these given below.

1.Gravitational coupling constant. If larger: no stars less than 1.4 solar masses, hence short stellar life spans.  If smaller: no stars more than 0.8 solar masses, hence no heavy element production.

2.Strong nuclear force coupling constant. If larger: no hydrogen; nuclei essential for life are unstable. If smaller: no elements other than hydrogen

3.Electromagnetic coupling constant. If larger: no chemical bonding; elements more massive than boron are unstable to fission. If smaller: no chemical bonding.

4.Ratio of protons to electrons. If larger: electromagnetism dominates gravity preventing galaxy, star and planet formation. If smaller: electromagnetism dominates gravity preventing galaxy, star, and planet formation.

5.Ratio of electron to proton mass. If larger: no chemical bonding. If smaller: no chemical bonding.

6.Expansion rate of the universe. If larger: no galaxy formation. If smaller: universe collapse prior to star formation.

7.Entropy level of the universe. If larger: no star condensation within the proto-galaxies. If smaller: no proto-galaxy formation.

8.Mass density of the universe. If larger: too much deuterium from big bang hence stars burn too rapidly. If smaller: no helium from big bang, hence not enough heavy elements.

9.Age of the universe. If older: no solar-type stars in a stable burning phase in the right part of the galaxy. If younger: solar-type stars in a stable burning phase would not yet have formed.

10.Average distance between stars. If larger: heavy elements density too thin for rocky planet production. If smaller: planetary orbits become destabilized.

11.Solar luminosity. If increases too soon: runaway green house effect. If increases too late: frozen oceans.

12.Fine structure constant (a function of three other fundamental constants, Planck’s constant, the velocity of light, and the electron charge each which, therefore, must be fine-tuned) If larger: no stars more than 0.7 solar masses, if smaller: not stars less than 1.8 solar masses.

13.Carbon to Oxygen energy level ratio. If larger: insufficient oxygen. If smaller: insufficient carbon.

14.Decay rate of proton. If greater: life would be exterminated by the release of radiation. If smaller: insufficient matter in the universe for life.

The degree of the universe being fine-tuned for many of these parameters is utterly amazing. For example, if the strong nuclear force were even two percent stronger or two percent weaker, the universe would never be able to support life. More astounding yet, the ground state energies for He, Be, C, and O cannot be higher or lower with respect to each other by more than four percent without yielding a universe with insufficient oxygen and/or carbon for any kind of life. The expansion rate of the universe is even more sensitive, it must be fine-tuned to an accuracy of one part in 10⁵⁵! Clearly someingenious Designer must be involved in the physics of the universe.

4. Does God exist? Origin of life

Life. What is it? Where did it come from? What makes it different from dust, the air and the water on earth? From the time we humans achieve self awareness there develops a fascination with the things that crawl, slither, walk, swim and fly. This fascination with the “living protoplasm” on earth is basic to our constitution. This fascination with living things leads us all to the point when we ask “where did they come from?” The question of the origin of life has bee debated by philosophers, theologians, scientists for thousands of years and is at the very core of the debate between the atheists and the creationists. Creationists see the creation of life as powerful, visible, manifestation of an awesome designer, creator, God. To the creationist, life is the product of the greatest chemist, biologists, mathematician and engineer in or out of the universe! To the atheist, life is viewed as incredibly lucky result of billions of years and countless violations of the laws of nature acting on non-living matter. As some have put it, life is “The fortuitous occurrence of accidental circumstances.”

Atheists assume that 3 to 4 billion years ago, non-living, inanimate, inorganic matter developed into highly complex living organism, by random chance. No one knows where it happened, but it generally assumed to have occurred somewhere on earth, in a “primordial ooze”, near hot oceanic vents or some shallow tidal pool. No designer, no blue prints, no instructions, no concept or purpose are allowed in the evolutionary scenario of the origin of life. Only the laws of nature, random chance and long periods of time are allowed to act on the raw materials of life.

5. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell’s behavior.

All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It’s made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask….how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person’s body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

6. Does God exist? Encyclopedia on a Pinhead: Chance or design?

At the moment of conception, a fertilized human egg is about the size of a pin head. Yet, it contains information equivalent to about six billion “chemical letters.” This is enough information to fill 1000 books, 500 pages thick with print so small you would need a microscope to read it! If all the DNA chemical “letters” in the human body were printed in books, it is estimated they would will the Grand Canyon 50 times!

The information on the DNA molecule is transferred to RNA and ultimately to proteins in the form of structural and functional proteins. A fundamental dilemma for the evolution theory is that the duplication and translation of the information on the DNA molecule requires the employment of proteins. However, living cells cannot make proteins until the DNA replication and translation machinery is in place! The only rational explanation for this dilemma is that the protein production and DNA replication and translation machinery system arose simultaneously! This could only happen by design.

Question: Would a DNA molecule that arose by chance posses any information, codes, programs, or instructions? According to the basic principles of information theory the answer is clearly NO!

7. Does God exist? A Complex Engineering Puzzle

Suppose you were asked to take two long stands of fisherman’s monofilament line, 125 miles long, then form it into a double helix structure and neatly fold and pack this line so it would fit into a basketball.

Furthermore, you would need to ensure that the double helix could be unzipped and duplicated along the length of this line, and the duplicate copy removed, all without tangling the line. Possible? This is directly analogous to what happens in the billions of cells in your body every day. Scale the basketball down to the size of a human cell and the line scales down to six feet of DNA.

All of this DNA must be packed so the regulator proteins that control making copies of the DNA have access to it. The DNA packing process is both complex and elegant and is so efficient that it achieves a reduction in length of DNA by a factor of one million. When the cell needs to divide, the entire length of DNA must be split apart, duplicated and repackaged for each daughter cell. No one knows exactly how cells solve this topological nightmare, but the solution clearly starts with the special spools on which the DNA is wound.

Each spool carries two “turns” of DNA, and the spools themselves are stacked together in groups of six or eight. The human cell uses about 25 million of them to keep its DNA under control. DNA is wound around histones to form nucleosomes. These are organized into solenoids, which in turn compose chromatin loops. Each element in this complex, yet highly organized arrangement is carefully designed to play a key role in the cell replication process.

8. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you’ll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you’re looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

He said, “I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life” (John 8:12).   He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, “follow my words and you will find truth.” He said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me” (John 14:6).

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can’t do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people… the blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects, and created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature, walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I’m telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you’re seeing (John 14:11).

Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus’ death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, “I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you” (Jeremiah 31:3).  This is God, in action.

Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We’re told that “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).

God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth’s perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ.

If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

This is your decision, but if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, “Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]” (Revelation 3:20).  If you want to do this, but aren’t sure how to put it into words, this may help: “Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen.”

God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, “I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:27-29).

So, does God exist? Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.

 

Hi

 

I have taken some time to read through your email and would like to rebut some of the points which you have made. I hope you will afford me the same time which I extended. 

 

 

Firstly may I agree with your first point regarding a person who makes no allowance for the possibility of a god existing. An atheist who cannot allow for a chance of that, however small, is no better than a fundamentalist of any other kind. As an amateur scientist, I have to recognise the importance of being able to admit that you were wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence. This is how the human race has progressed over the whole of its existence, with particular emphasis on the last 200 years. 

 

 

That said, I must advise you that a great majority of atheists will not be moved to a new position with quotes from the bible. I personally believe it to be a work of fiction and therefore its claims mean nothing to me. Certainly, I could be persuaded that events in the bible happened, given the right amount of historic evidence, but that evidence cannot be found inside the book itself. 

 

 

I would like to address each of you points in turn.

 

 

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

This is an argument which I would refer to as “The Goldilocks Zone”, that is to say that we exist in conditions which are “just right” for carbon based life forms. There are three important things to consider here. 

The first is that if we didn’t live in these very specific conditions, we would not be alive. This means that we would be unable to consider ourselves as lucky and wonder at exactly how perfect the conditions are. 

The second point is to do with the vastness of the universe. Whilst the conditions on out planet are indeed unlikely, we must scale the probability to the size of the universe. A small chance multiplied billions of times gives an overwhelming probability that there should be life somewhere. Drakes equation is a rough estimate of the number of planets in our galaxy which should have the conditions suited to life as we know it.  The parameters involved are a hot topic in the scientific community and there is a great deal of variance, however even the most conservative values predict the number of suitable planets to be in the hundreds, with the less conservative giving tens of thousands of possible planets. Remember that this is in our galaxy alone, so when we consider that there are far more than 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe, the chance of there not being life somewhere is as small as to be ridiculous. Conversely we must also consider how many “useless” planets are in existence, why should there be so many lifeless rocks in a designed universe. Not only this but the amount of time which the life-bearing planets have the right conditions is tiny in comparison to the life span of the planet itself. Very soon the temperature of the earth will change drastically and conditions will no longer be suited to life as we know it.

The final argument on this point comes from a philosophical point of view. I personally believe it to be incredibly small minded for human beings to think that carbon based sentient life is the only possibility. The universe is incredibly vast and unknown, which means that other forms of life, completely inconceivable to us, could exist. It therefore follows from an evolutionary position, that we have developed the way we have in accordance with the conditions of our planet. This means that we have suited ourselves to the earth and not visa versa. 

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start – what caused it?

This is commonly known as the first cause argument. However for myself, postulating the existence of a god to explain this answers no more questions than it poses. If a god was indeed the cause of the universe, then from where did it appear. In the example of your watch we could take the argument further by asking where the watchmaker came from, the answer of course being his parents, but what about them, and so on and so forth. Apart from anything else, the first cause could be something other than a deity, it could be explained by the existence of other incomprehensible dimensions or the snot of a being from another universe. Even then, we reach the same wall, what caused the first cause and with today’s scientific knowledge, we cannot pose an argument with any reasonable evidence to credit it as anything more than a basic theory. 

3. Does God exist? Design parameters of the universe.

This is merely an extension of the Goldilocks Argument. The same principles apply in terms of not being able to ask the question if the conditions hadn’t been so. Also, most of the mentioned parameters are more to do with the existence of the universe itself, rather than the life it harbours. I won’t go into each individual constant as I feel that they can all be wrapped up in the aforementioned principle. 

4. Does God exist? Origin of life

I find myself at a loss when it comes to de-constructing this argument as you have already outlined the cause of life which I consider most plausible, that in which an initial set of conditions gives rise to the first living organism. I am amazed that people consider it more likely that life was purposefully designed. This poses the question of who design the creator, whereas such an argument isn’t needed when the reaction happens by chance. Also remember that once again we are imagining vast periods of time in which a small probability is given enough chances to grow into something which is likely. It is up to those in the field of abiogenesis to provide us with the initial reactions which gave rise to a complex, self replicating organism, but this is something which is entirely plausible given the existing arguments including the iron-sulfur world theory.

5. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell’s behavior.

and

6. Does God exist? Encyclopedia on a Pinhead: Chance or design?

and

7. Does God exist? A Complex Engineering Puzzle

Your closing argument to this section is a worry to me. To say that biological causes cannot explain DNA is so misinformed as to be ludicrous. Whilst our scientists have not yet arrived at a complete solution as to how original DNA arose, there are certainly theories being developed and tested to try to solve this problem, including theories surrounding RNA. After this we have to consider that the DNA in early life was much less complex than that which exists now. Evolution is driven by mutations in DNA and this leads to much more complex life. Those arguments aside though, I feel that it is a cop-out to use the existence of a god to explain a puzzle which we have not yet solved. If we ask the same questions about the god we are then told that he is mysterious or that we cannot possibly understand his nature. This does nothing to enlighten us or to present evidence for a god.

Also, it strikes me as a fairly silly way to create life if you are an all powerful being. Why code something so small with the information to create something human sized, when you could simply have the fully grown human blink into existence. It seems to be self indulgent to create a self replicating, horribly slow process just to demonstrate ….. what? Your ability to code? Also, a huge majority of our DNA is redundant, in the fact that it does not code. The best theory for why this is, is that it has lost its application over the years but was previously useful at some point during evolution. Why would a deity include this useless information in a code which should be concise to the needs of a human, when it could simply have the redundant DNA erase itself after it lost its use. 

It saddens me to see deities used to explain complex things and seems to me to be incredibly lazy. If we don’t understand something, we should strive to fine the cause of it or the reasons why it happened. The complexity of biological structures are necessary, if they were not so the thing would not be as it is, this doesn’t mean that it had to be designed, merely that it had to be. 

8. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

Earlier, I mentioned that the bible can not be used as evidence for Christianity being correct. This is the argument for which this fact is most pertinent. Despite what the Alpha Courses across the country would have their attendees believe, there is not one scrap of evidence for the existence of Jesus outside of the bible. Certainly, there are mentions of Jesus on historical documents but it was a popular name of the time, there is no mention of a Jesus of Nazareth or any of his other titles. For instance, there is no census or other document with reasonable proof. This means that the only evidence given is that of the bible, which aims to prove itself true. Any good lawyers could point out major flaws in this type of argument.  

Concerning Jesus’ radical claims to be God, I only think that this shows the perversity of the Christian religion. Vicarious redemption, the idea that our sins are forgiven through Jesus, is a horrific concept. It absconds us of any responsibility for our own actions as long as we choose to believe in a certain person and his other 2 constituent holy parts. It is also a foul idea that god should choose for anyone to suffer to forgive sins, if his aim was to do so then he could merely have forgiven, there was no need for sacrifice as he would be all powerful. Instead he chose for his son to die and for this we are told that we should be grateful. These are not the actions of a god who loves us, but those of an egocentric amoral being who experiments with his own inventions as if they were insects in his lab. 

Lastly, in you closing point you said that from the facts it could be concluded that a loving god exists and can be known personally. If I had taken your arguments to be good evidence then at best I could have concluded that there was indeed an intelligent designer of the universe, which in no way implies that we are loved by it. In fact, we could look at the unnecessary suffering in the world and conclude instead that this designer was a perverse monstrosity with an appetite for sadism.

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